Why leave Hawaii?
August 18th, 2008 by Kim
My last day at the Advertiser was last week, and this week, I'm running around packing and tying up all loose ends before hopping a plane to Washington, D.C. this Friday where I'll be going to grad school for the next 2 years.
I'll be moving out of one apartment and into another when I get there, so that means lots of cleaning and lots and lots of cardboard boxes.
Here's where my classes will be (left). Looks lovely, doesn't it?
Any local kid who's ever gone to school, to live or to work on the mainland will inevitably get this question: "Why the heck would you ever leave Hawaii??"
I guess my short answer is always the "Island Fever" explanation -- that I want to experience something different in hopes that it will help me grow and learn, beyond what I learn in the classroom.
D.C. certainly lacks Hawaii's awesome weather, beautiful beaches, gorgeous mountains and laid-back local culture. But even though Hawaii has no winter, it still has its own frustrations.
And the goal, in the end, is always to return home.
Since I know there are some expats who stop by this blog now and then, I'm wondering: what were your reasons for leaving Hawaii ... and do you plan to come back?
Tags: graduate school
August 18th, 2008 at 3:34 am
1) too crowded - it's become like LA, where you have to schedule your day around rush hour traffic...try going anywhere on the freeway at 4pm
2) expensive - gas, food, housing, electric....
I've been off the isles for over 30 years, moved to a place sight unseen....been here ever since. Would I do it again? You betcha
I have reservations about moving back after retirement thou...
People here are amazed that I left paradise to live here...most change their minds once they've vacationed in Hawaii...."a nice place to vacation, but we'd have a difficult time living there". Their number one reason.....too expensive. But then again, everyone has their threshold on what constitutes comfortable living.
Things I miss:
Beach, surf, food, the aloha spirit...that's why I've been coming back for vacations frequently.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:55 am
I left for school and haven't returned because there are no jobs in my field that will pay enough to support my family. The problem is that, as time goes on and my career advances, the number of potential jobs at home that fit my criteria declines.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:23 am
My high school friends left Hawaii to go to school. When they came back they had their degrees and experience to land the good jobs. I wanted the same, so I went to grad school, got my degree, and am now looking to return to the islands which was always the goal. It's not easy living in the islands and I don't need much else then a home, the surf, and my family. Sure the salary for what I'm doing is better in the mainland but I love what I am doing and there is no place like home.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:44 am
well at least you'll be able to see colt play...
August 18th, 2008 at 6:33 am
Aloha Kim, You doing good. Daughter went away for grad school, stayed on the mainland for a while, got married and returned home to start a family. She wanted to raise her kids here + we here to help with our grandkids. My son moved to the mainland after graduating from UH to work in his field and has been there for over 5 years. He likes it up there although his wife is yearning to come home. His very good friend from high school has been on the mainland since going college and finally got a permanent full time job as a fireman in Washington DC and starts this week...hopefully, you will never see him while doing his work. And I don't think he will be moving back to Hawaii since he has a lot of family up there and his wife is from the east coast. My son's other good friend works in Virginia and will probably stay on the mainland as his wife, although went high school here, is originally from Texas where her parents live.
It sounds like you will be back one day to live and work and perhaps to raise a family, but home is where your heart is. You doing great.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:43 am
Yep, I'm a Hawaii ex-pat and Iolani alum. I left for college and grad school, but I also had "island fever". 2009 will mark 10 years since I left Hawaii. I couldn't come back after grad school because there were no jobs for anything that I've studied. I guess I'm a pretty typical case, but I really do intend to come home at some point. Hopefully, within the next 5 years. Because, Hawaii is the only place that I'd want to settle down and raise a family. Plus, all my existing family still lives there. I literally had to make a whole new "family" when I moved to the mainland. And I know when I finally make the decision to move home, I'll be really sad to leave them too.
So, I totally feel you Kim. I've been in your shoes and still am.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:05 am
I had to leave because the training I needed was not available in Hawaii. It turned out to be the best thing for me because it was a very good growing experience. People who stay in Hawaii and never leave are more likely to be apathetic, still act like they're still in high school, without ambition and never know how things could be better... Hawaii will never be better unless we leave and then return with knowledge of how things could and should be.
Good luck to you! I liked the DC area (I went to school at College Park).
August 18th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Yesterday after a movie at Ward the wife and I were planning to go to the family festival at Magic Island. We turned into Ala Moana beach park and, 28 minutes later exited because there wasn't a parking place to be seen and idiot people were double-parking while they loaded/unloaded their beach stuff.
We're leaving, probably after the baby is born in February, to head to Chico/Sacramento area where my sister, her husband and my soon to be retired parents have decided to set up our new life, based around my sisters practice (lawyer) and husbands practice (doctor).
We do still love Hawaii and plan to buy another investment property before we leave so we will always have a place to return in Hawaii. We need to leave this congested, over crowded island, it is just too much to take. We're sad.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Are you going to SAIS? Ah, such a great place for International Affairs. Several of my college buddies now attend there. You'll love DC! I absolutely loved being a young, professional working there right out of college. All the bests!
August 18th, 2008 at 8:56 am
My son's friend/classmate from Honolulu went to grad school at Hopkins and after getting his PhD went on to a teaching position in Illinois. He has been there for almost a decade, I think. The lesson is that one can decide to stay on the mainland if an opportunity is there. Or come back here, especially since an education will give you more options. We live in a small world...good luck to you.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I left for my education, first to the East Coast for undergrad, then to the West Coast for grad school. They were some of the best experiences of my life, and they enabled me to develop an independence and strength of mind and heart that I could have never cultivated here at home. After many years away, however, I knew Hawaii was where I wanted to settle down, despite the high cost of living and more limited professional opportunities. My family wasn't about to relocate to the mainland, either!
Thankfully, my educational credentials and mainland work experiences have enabled me to overcome some of the hardships of living in Hawaii, so I'm happy, overall, to be back. My life is "easier" than those many of my peers thanks to those opportunities, and I truly appreciate that. I definitely miss the gorgeous colors of an East Coast Fall and the culture and unlimited experiences of the big cities. I'm itching to go back, and I definitely plan to raise my children with many vacations in my second and third homes! Good luck in grad school and please continue to blog every now and then!
August 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
"Awesome weather, beautiful beaches, gorgeous mountains and laid-back local culture."
I did the opposite. After undergrad, I came out here not really knowing anyone and stayed. I could have gone back to the Bay Area for grad school, but instead stayed here to get my next degree. I've never looked back for some of the reasons to which Kim cites. Ultimately, it is good to have options in life, which is what Kim is giving herself.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
I left because what I really wanted in a school was a private, Catholic, university which is what I found in the Bay Area. Silicon Valley is the perfect place to be for computers as well. I make more money in an entry level position that my brother does doing a sys admin job for five years in Hawai which is just incredible. I miss home and try to make it twice a year but that may change with the high airfare. We'll see. I've grown to love the Bay Area with its choices of freeways, ease of traveling (1 hour to LA?? yay!), and easier-on-the-wallet living choices. It's not as bad as I thought it was when I first started school.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Hi Kim,
I graduated high school here in Hawaii, and wanting to make video games, there was nothing (though I did try my hand at HCC for a while not "smart enough" to get in UH). Eventually I decided I needed to grow, and also find a school where I could learn the right skills to get me the career I wanted. So I headed off to SF, went to a kick ass school, and got some kick ass jobs while I was up there. But in the end I always considered Hawaii home, and most likely always will, so I came back.
Going away is such a good experience though, I think in many ways the education is almost secondary to the experience.
This country was founded by pioneers, people that welcomed a little hardship in exchange for opportunity. I think going away gives you that pioneer mentality, making the best of where ever you are, and making your dreams happen, even at great sacrifice. I think most success and failure in life revolves simply around how you think, and having that thought process can pay large dividends when you do decide to return home...
Good luck Kim! (and visit the Air and Space museum for me while your there!)
August 18th, 2008 at 11:47 am
You will be back...they always come back.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Nothing is like Hawaii...this is a very special place. BUT wages are kinda depressed. I had a friend (who just moved back) tell me that, "Hawaii great if your rich, but it sucks when you're poor." When he left he was a young single guy from a pretty affluent family, and when he returned he was a father of two with a fat mortgage. Blame it on the non-diversified economy, high cost of living etc....
The real problem with Hawaii is that, if you grew up here, you've probably been surrounded by your extended family for your ENTIRE life. Moving anywhere else means leaving a safety net. Lost your keys, call aunty/uncle...need someone to hang out with, call a sibling/cousin.
Of course the GREAT thing about leaving Hawaii is that everybody ain't in yo bidness 24/7/365!!!
Have fun, be safe, and come back ultra sophisticated and what not.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Hi Kim,
Great writing over the years, will be sad to see you go but know you'll gain great experience in the mainland. Was away from Hawaii for 8 years, came back briefly, then have left ago. Reason for leaving was always to obtain educational experiences not available in Hawaii, but always with the goal of returning home to share what I've learned. Those people who leave Hawaii for the sake of education but the mindset that they will return home typically return home for only a few reasons (from my experience). (1) Right after they finish their education, since the yearnings of returning home are fresh (2) When they have children because they want to raise their children the same way they were raised (3) A family member back home needs to be cared for. I am only in my early 30s so I can't say whether or not a lot of people return home to retire. But one thing that I'm sure you will notice during your adventure in D.C., Hawaii will always be a unifying force amongst all expatriates. You will smile when you see honu stickers or a UH license plate on the car in front of you. Your pidgin may suddenly reincarnate if you are shopping next to someone wearing a T&C shirt, hoping that they will ask you if you're from Hawaii. Once in undergraduate, an expatriate heard my friends and I talking pidgin while waiting at a restaurant, and introduced himself as a former Hawaii resident (removed 20 years). He stopped by later and noticed we didn't get our food for about one hour. He marched into the kitchen and started yelling at the cooks. Though we might have had some "extra special" ingredients in our meals, we got them a few minutes later, and our homesick hearts felt a little happier knowing a local boy was looking after us. Best wishes on your journey, keep the Aloha spirit going, and hope to read your writings again if your path takes you back home.
August 18th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I have never lived out of state so I can't speak from experience. I wish I had went to college or moved temporarily to the Mainland during my younger years. I have traveled around the States and recently visited Japan, I feel that its good to get off the island and experience different places and cultures. Its hard to move right now because I am just past the halfway point to retirement and need to put in more time. For now I just enjoy going to new places and experiencing new things.
August 19th, 2008 at 7:07 am
When I left at 18, I saw Hawaii as an inbred, immature, fake hellhole, where everyone is convinced they're the most open, accepting culture in the U.S., and no one ever actually grows up out of high school. The island mentality is suffocating, and there's no easy way to escape.
Now, in my mid-twenties, the way I feel hasn't changed, but I no longer despise Hawaii with the same intensity I once did. I'm glad I'm gone, and I don't think I'll ever move back, but I don't feel revulsion remembering the place.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Hawaii is a special place, but it is always good to live somewhere else for a part of your life. There are more opportunities abroad than here in Hawaii.
But there are other things (family related) that will draw some people back. That's what happened to me, and I have never regretted returning home.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Andrew: Where do you now live?
August 19th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Good question.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:49 am
Hey--
I was born and raised in Hawaii, graduated from Punahou. Most of my family lives in Hawaii. In high school I was OBSESSED with Hawaii's weather, surf, beaches, laid-back culture, etc. etc. Went to the mainland for college, missed Hawaii, moved back home. Travelled around the world for a while. Realized there are tons of amazing places outside the states. Moved back home. Married someone who isn't from the US. Lived abroad for a while. Missed Hawaii. We moved back to Hawaii and bought a house. Found out that living in Hawaii all "grown up" is waaaaay different then living there as a kid. Still loved the weather, but the amount of traffic, cost of living, stiffling mentalities, and the fact that many of my high school friends moved away for better opportunities bummed me out. Had to move away again for my husband's job, and haven't looked back. I LOVED Hawaii and still LOVE it.... just not sure if I can live there again full time. Hawaii is an amazing place to grow up and an amazing place to be on vacation. To each their own.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Hawaii is a beautiful place, but it is HUGELY limited in so many ways.
Aside from the beautiful beaches, the mainland has more to offer than Hawaii does. But there's more to life than a beautiful beach.
Of course, if you choose to live here because your family is here and you don't want to be apart, then it's understandable why you'd want to stay in Hawaii. The flip side is that if you leave, you can always come back to visit family.
Living on a little island......traffic......overcrowding......low pay......limited entertainment......not much in favor of living in Hawaii.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:05 am
My reasons for going away were mostly due to the push from my parents and school. My mom nearly forced me to go to school on the mainland from a young age, and the fact that I graduated from your rival high school where most leave for mainland schools made it seem like the normal thing to do.
I've yet to find the perfect niche but I'm glad that I went away and transferred around like I did. Moving to the mainland gives you so much more than just the education in the classroom and it makes you feel more connected to the world than staying on an island all your life would, I believe. Sure, Hawaii has the weather and the food amongst other great things, but you don't really grow until you're out of your comfort zone. I also think Hawaii's changing and experiencing something outside of Hawaii will help us deal with that change. I plan on moving back someday but I just can't see myself living there for an extended amount of time as of now.
Good luck!
August 20th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Hi Kim,
Left Hawaii over 40 years ago for a two-year job assignment in D.C., which was a culture shock for me and my family. Survived but got homesick and wanted to return. Gutted it out for over 30 years and finally retired 5 years ago and returned home to paradise. Hawaii is a great place for retirement if you plan for it and accept the high cost of living for the beautiful weather, beaches, and friendly people of a large ohana. Everyone needs to get off the rock to experience living somewhere else to know that there is more in this world than where you grew up. Do not regret leaving Hawaii for greater job opportunities and experiencing a completely different lifestyle where you're on your own. Wish you the best and soak in all the differences in D.C. Expect you to be back in Hawaii with a big smile. Mahalo.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:50 am
No matter how many years pass there Hawaii will always be with you, even if you do not know it. A cashier in the supermarket asked me if I was from Hawaii. I was surpised and asked her how she knew. She said I sounded like her dad. People from Hawaii (or their kids) can spot the accent, even it you think it is gone.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
I'm one of those people who (gasp) born here and have almost no interest in leaving Hawaii!
I once had a friend who claimed to be the "biggest victim of the world", who didn't like Hawaii and wanted to leave for the mainland! After a few weeks in Las Vegas, he realized mainland life isn't up to the hype promoted by the "leave for the mainland" crowd!
I am glad I went to UH instead of an over-hyped mainland college! Being that I was from an urban, mostly-immigrant school (McKinley), being @ UH exposed me to people of the Neighbor Islands, rural & suburban Oahu! I wouldn't have that exposure if I went to an over-hyped mainland school. Also @ UH, I also had exposure to mainland students (many of them from Oregon & Washington), as well as international students (from Asia, Europe, Pacific, Africa, etc, etc)!
So dont tell me that I wasn't exposed to various types of people @ UH!
I wish I had more $$$ so I can travel to different places, so I can expose myself more!
But i'm still getting tired of Hawaii-raised people whining about life in Hawaii, and demanding everyone to attend over-hyped mainland colleges!
After all, it's not so bad here! Just look at what's going on in foreign countries. There's a reason why many of them (including my dad from Mexico) come to Hawaii.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
First of all to Pablo Wegesand, why do you call universities on the mainland "over-hyped mainland colleges? You've never been to one! Going to a University and living on campus is one of the great opportunities of a lifetime! You get to live, eat, debate issues with people other than those who have lived in Hawaii. It really opens your mind that ther are other ways of dealing with issues and relationships. I got my three degrees in Utah and Ohio, then tried for post-graduate work here in Hawaii. It was so terrible, that I returned to Ohio to really learn about me area of expertise.
Also when I lived on the Mainland nobody ever called me a F******* Haole B*****. I've lived here my whole life and worked in medicine, but to really get state-of -art continuing education, I have to return to the Mainland.
Yes, Hawaii is wonderful, but don't undermine mainland and other countries' education until you have tried it.
It certainly would help your English skills.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I apologize for my two typing errors. I just get angry when I read comments from people such as you Pable, who are totally ignorant about a situation and then proclaim themselves so holier-than-thou.
You also say, "Just look at what's going on in foreign countries." You can live in Italy and see 70% of all the great art of the world. You can live anywhere in Europe and learn about our ancestry. Your family did live in Mexico, so they are of Spanish descent. Go to Barcelona or Madrid and learn the rich culture. There are wonderful countries and other continents to explore out there, but I guess you'll never know.
August 20th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
calwillnol,
you said "Also when I lived on the Mainland nobody ever called me a F******* Haole B*****."
How do you think the non-whites feel in white-dominated suburbs in the mainland?
You get to live, eat, debate issues with people other than those who have lived in Hawaii.
At UH , I had the luxury of having my newspaper editorials constantly and publicly dissected by this guy from Atlanta! I had professors who came from the mainland, Asia and Europe. So don't give me this stuff of UH students not being exposed to non-Hawaii ideas!
As for my quote of "over-hyped mainland colleges", I'm getting tired of mainland colleges assumed to be automatically better just because they're located on the mainland. But reality is school is what you make of it! You could get admitted into an Ivy League school, but if you keep having problems there, then your superior SAT scores won't help you at all! You may have the keys to get in, but then what?
My point is -- Hawaii isn't for everyone, mainland colleges aren't for everyone! I'm getting tired of Hawaii being looked down upon!
BTW, if you read Cat Toth's blog last week, I defended Obama's local credentials, so it's not that I think those who move away are "subhuman", I'm just tired of hearing people who choose to stay in Hawaii being called "provincial", or "inbred"
If you don't like Hawaii, you can make constructive criticisms or you can leave!
August 20th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I think the other fellow was defending mainland colleges partly because the majority of them ARE better, in terms of national ranking, academic achievements, alumni associations, all the categories that constitute the argument for college rankings. Typically, each state's flagship university(University of California, University of Arizona, University of Illinios), is a great, powerful school and tops in national rankings. Unfortunately, UH isn't anywhere near as competitive as the mainland schools in that category. That's too bad, and I'm not ragging on UH, it's just the truth. I went to HPU and received a fantastic post graduate education. The undergrads whom I knew also loved the school.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
calwillnol,
My earlier quote on foreign countries wasn't intended to poop on them! I'm just mentioning that Hawaii looks good in comparison to what's going on in some other countries, so people should be more appreciative of Hawaii!
I've been to Mexico myself. I've been to the museum in Mexico City that had all the Native Mexican artifacts from the Aztecs, Mayans, etc. I also been to Oaxaca & Jalisco (other Mexican states)
I also remember that city's pollution as worse than LA, and that country's ghettoes make the "ghettoes" in Hawaii & LA (visited there too) look good in comparison!
After I left, I was happy my dad decided to move to Hawaii before I was born.
That's the way many descendants of immigrants feel!
But Mexico's not even close to being the worst places to live in! Just look at Iraq, Sudan, Congo, North Korea, etc. Many would take the chance to come here if they had the chance. To them, all the public housings in Kalihi (once lived there) look good in comparison!
August 20th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
I recently returned to HI from establishing a home base in Hell-A for the past 6 years and find myself with the urge to leave again. When I moved away for school initially, I didn't want to leave HI. I had attachments, but at the same time I was young and ignorant. During my first summer back, that "island fever" procured and I couldn't wait to get back to cali for the party scene, the option to discover the US on the road, El Tarasco's, etc. It was a great experience in cali...I'd like to call it a love-hate relationship. Even having kept cali in my heart, I don't want to go back to live. The travel bug bit me, as I'm sure did many others. I realize it was fortunate I left to experience life outside of the comfortable shell I was in during my former years and it encourages me to do it again to see what this world's got. This isn't the first time you've heard this adage, but "we only live once."
If I see myself writing my memoirs while located in HI...possibly. But at the same time, I could see myself ending up somewhere international as well. All I know is that when I'm done writing it, I want it to be complete and physically heavy.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
One more thing, good luck Kim!
August 21st, 2008 at 3:27 am
I'll have to disagree with you on this choice....Arizona State University is ahead of UA in many categories. http://www.asu.edu
August 21st, 2008 at 4:20 am
@ Pablo Wegesend:
(1) "As for my quote of ‘over-hyped mainland colleges’, I’m getting tired of mainland colleges assumed to be automatically better just because they’re located on the mainland."
You are right that there are mainland colleges that are not “better” than UH. That being said a good deal of them are. This is based not only on conjecture but empirical evidence of ranking and reputation. As someone who has recruited for a Fortune 500 firm I can say that educational reputation and rankings does come into play as a selection criteria during recruitment.
Further, even if the errant mainland college does happen to rank lower than UH there is still a good chance that the experience of going to that college may be “better” than going to UH. Hawaii has particularly unique atmospherics that result in a highly localized and isolated experience.
Going away to college and (a) Learning to be independent away from your family / support systems (b) Gaining exposures and being IMMERSED (not just “dissected” papers) in different cultures/viewpoints/ethnicities all have tremendous value in the forging of a well balanced college graduate.
(2) "You could get admitted into an Ivy League school, but if you keep having problems there, then your superior SAT scores won’t help you at all! You may have the keys to get in, but then what?"
The percentage of people who fail out of Ivy League schools is practically zero. This is due to two reasons: (1) People who end up at Ivy Leagues are often highly motivated; (2) Ivy leagues commonly practice what people like to call "grade inflation". I put the term in quotes as it is questionable if that phenomenon even exists. The reason no one gets below a B is because everyone, repeat everyone is an “A” student. They all represent the top half of one percent of all students in the country and likely have never received anything below an A or A- in their entire lives, and basically the quality of their work product deserve A’s. In short, grade inflation is a myth. However I digresses…to address your statement, if you have the “keys” to get into an Ivy you will lean, you will finish, and employers will absolutely bend over backwards to get you to their firm.
(3) I provide a proviso. I grew up in Hawaii. I love Hawaii. In the past I have gone out of my way to recruit people from Hawaii. However whenever I had a choice between someone who stayed in Hawaii and one who went away for school I often chose the latter. Often this was due to empirical reasoning based on school ranking/reputation. However more often the decision was based on knowing that the one that went away is more likely (at least in the early stage of their career) to be more well rounded, able to acclimate to new environments, to be capable of working with and understanding people from diverse backgrounds, and to be risk taking and proactive. These skillsets are essential for the challenging, diverse, and ever changing corporate environment.
As you may know new college grads have little or rather irrelevant job experience. Further the ones who pass the initial employment screen are all at the top of their class. Thus differentiation methods are limited and reliance on educational intuition rankings as well as analysis of their past personal exposure and development is essential.
Is it a shortcut to assume that the person who went away is stronger in these skillsets? Yes. Is there a better way to figure out how someone who stayed in Hawaii developed the same developmental, independence/maturity, and cultural/social/viewpoint interactions as one who went away? No….at least not without a week long interview.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:41 pm
JM,
most of those college rankings are based on hype!
After 5 years out of college, 5 years in the real world, hardly any employers would even care what college you went to. They look at what you accomplished on the job, do you get along well with others, etc.
Also on the Ivy's, you said most people dont fail out of them. But people do drop out for reasons other than grades!
Anyways, as I mentioned earlier, UH isn't for everyone, mainland colleges isn't for everyone.
But the idea that's been put out there (ie, being a UH student will lead to a life of eternal poverty) is nothing but non-sense. As long as you commit yourself to learning, and handle things right, you should do fine, UH or no UH!
August 21st, 2008 at 11:01 pm
I grew up on the Mainland and also lived overseas for many years. There are two things I miss: one is that neighbors are more friendly, especially in the Midwest. There, you get to know your neighbors because they are, well, next to you. Here, your social interaction is with friends and relatives visiting your home. Homes in Hawaii are, therefore, like little castles, with little interaction with those living next door.
The second thing I miss is the ability to just get in a car and drive somewhere for the weekend, a week or longer. No taxi to the airport, no long flight...simply go!
The best things about Hawaii? The weather, which is probably the most comfortable in the world. And the mountains and ocean, and the cosmopolitan culture. The most fortunate people are those who get to experience both places.
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:36 am
Welcome to the Big Island.
Fully 99.9% of the world lies outside of Hawaii, and so if one wants to know as much of the world as possible in one's lifetime, they have to leave the Islands for a while to experience that -- more than a week in Las Vegas, which is not really indicative of the rest of the world but is a tourist trap like Hawaii.
I think a fairly small percentage of those leaving Hawaii are attracted to the East Coast, while much of the West coast might as well be Hawaii -- with all the ex-Islanders living there, but really, they're all over now.
Pretty much WalMart, Starbucks and McDonalds has standardized life across America and the rest of the world now apparently -- if the Olympics are to be believed, and so it is becoming increasingly easier to live wherever the living is best -- for where one is at personally.
The troubling thing about Hawaii is that it is insular like a lot of small town communities anywhere in the world -- except that in these small towns, they don't usually insist that the rest of the world has to come around and recognize that it is the greatest place on earth -- or "paradise," if you pardon that expression.
In Hawaii, a large part of what paradise means is "fitting in" in to a rigid social (political) hierarchy (the status quo), and if one stays around long enough, they'll eventually reach the top of seniority and be next in line to replace one of Hawaii's two US senators -- or move on elsewhere and discover what else there is to do in life.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 am
Pablo,
I agree some of your points however I disagree with a few points in which we may have to just agree to disagree.
“most of those college rankings are based on hype!”
There is an element of subjective “hype” in the ranking systems. However a large portion of rankings are based upon hard and measurable values. Things like: % employed after graduation, student surveys (written by the students themselves), average salary, educational peer reviews, scholarly authorship, teacher to student ratios, and things as simple as being able to get the classes you need to graduate in 4 years (a particular thorn in the UH system).
I agree with your point when two schools are close, say one ranked 20 and the other 25. From that the difference between the two may be attributed to “hype”. However when you are talking about a top b-school with a powerhouse alumni base and reputation and compare it to a tier 2 or 3 ranked school, the difference is not hype. The difference is very solid/measurable differences in employability (in any market), pay, educational quality, and educational resources.
Take for example the original poster. She is going to Hopkins school of government. They are fairly well ranked for a reason. They are located in DC and have local access to Federal/Agency government resources, knowledge, and experience. This knowledge base (at least at this level) is not available anywhere in the United States (especially Hawaii) except DC. That is the reason they are ranked as such and not based in“Hype”.
“After 5 years out of college, 5 years in the real world, hardly any employers would even care what college you went to. They look at what you accomplished on the job, do you get along well with others, etc”
5 years in is still considered “early career / entry level”, at this point school pedigree and reputation is still very important to recruiters. Post early career and more into mid or late stage this matter less. Further in most professional areas such as psychology, law, finance, medical, government, etc school pedigree follows you your entire career. This is due not only to the assumption that you are smarter/better/effective, but also because your school and similar ranked schools will selectively recruit and promote from their old stomping ground. Think the “old boys club” but related to educational pedigree. It may be an unfair and ineffective system but to assume it does not exist would be delusional.
“But the idea that’s been put out there (ie, being a UH student will lead to a life of eternal poverty) is nothing but non-sense. As long as you commit yourself to learning, and handle things right, you should do fine, UH or no UH!”
Absolutely true! Commitment and hard work can get you into doors that people believe are closed off to regional schools. However the difference is in the effort and time required as well as the odds of getting in that door. Coming from UH you perhaps can work Bulge Bracket banking but you better work hard to be at the absolute top of your class and hustle like a madman to make the contacts and professional experience required. If all of those requirements are met, you still need to cross some fingers as the odds are still stacked against you. That being said, again lets not be delusional. If you show up at the doorstep of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts (KKR) with a 4.0 perfect GPA from UH and great Hawaii based letters of recommendations you still will be shooed away with the obligatory, "Perhaps after you get some experience under your belt...."
Contrast that with a kid walking out the door of HBS. Not only do they not have to be at the top of their class at all but further the employer will come on campus at the end of the year for a recruitment session and try to convince the student why they should work for their firm.
There is no right answer here. Either path has the chance of getting you to your goals. One however involves significantly higher risk of non-success as well as paying alot more dues for a really long time.
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:19 am
A hui hou, Kim, malama pono.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:10 am
JM, congratulations on an outstanding comment. I agree with you 100%.
In regard to coming back to Hawaii with a degree from a Mainland school and using that degree to get a job here...it really depends on where you went to school. Employers here have heard of Harvard, Yale and Princeton, of course, but are horribly ignorant of other outstanding schools, like Williams, where Kim went. Honestly now, how many of you recognize Williams, although it's been the Number One small liberal arts college in the nation for many years? Or Pomona? Oberlin? Amherst? Claremont McKenna? All outstanding. Sadly, a recruiter here is much more likely to be impressed by a "Punahou" or "Iolani" than a Mainland college that has given that person a terrific education.
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Kim-why are you so intent on returning to Hawaii? What if you meet a guy and fall in love? You'd be setting up big walls if you have a mindset that you have to return to Hawaii. Three years on the east coast is an eternity.
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
I'm an expat currently living in the Washington DC area. I left Hawaii immediately after I graduated high school for military service. I really enjoyed my time in the US Air Force. The military has been the stepping stone for my education and career opportunities. My military experience is in a unique field.
While in the service, I obtained my Associate in Applied Science degree in Electronics Technology. I also started my Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering while in the US Air Force. Within months I was awarded an US Air Force ROTC scholarship and had a choice of selecting a university to attend. University of Hawaii was on my list, but I was advised to attend a mainland college. I worked towards my undergraduate degree in Electrical Engineering, but changed my major and gave up the scholarship. I completed my Bachelors of Science degree in Computer Science on the mainland.
I searched for a job/career in Hawaii after I graduated. Nothing fit with my experience, education and career interest. I really wanted a career path in the high technology research and development arena. I eventually found a job with a firm in the city where I completed my undergraduate degree. I kept searching for a career in Hawaii. An option was to work in the Federal government and transfer to Hawaii, but I really wanted a career in true high technology research and development.
I eventually moved to the Maryland/Virginia/Washington DC area for my perfect career fit in high technology research and development. Both my career and advance education has flourished in this metropolitan area. My career positions have been steadily moving upward. I graduated with honors in Johns Hopkins University's Master of Science degree program in Systems Engineering. I again searched Hawaii for a career. Several high technology research and development firms are in Hawaii, but not in my specialization.
The current chapter in my life is working towards completing my Doctor of Science degree in Systems Engineering at George Washington University (GWU). I’m in the independent research phase writing my dissertation and I work full-time. My plan is to eventually own my own research and development firm (possibly in Hawaii) or seek tenure in the engineering department at University (possibly UH). When and if I do retire, I will retire in Hawaii.
As for the Washington DC area, there are many Hawaii ties! The Hawaii State Society (HSS) of Washington DC has many activities. Become a member if you have time away from your studies. I have already purchased ($200 per ticket) my HSS Presidential Inaugural Ball (first ever for HSS) tickets for January 2009. Obama is sure to visit this ball. The Ke Ali’i Maka’aiana Hawaii Civic Club sponsors quite a few activities in the area. Many universities in the area have Hawai’i clubs. I’ve attend the GWU luaus each year.
When time permits, I keep my “Hawaii sanity” in check by visiting Hawaii once every two years. I also read the Hawaii online newspapers when I can. I recieve care packages from family members...as a last resort...Zippy's online orders...lol (checkout facebook's group: Next Stop: Zippy's!) I really keep in touch with my Hawaii upbringing by joining many Hawaii related facebook groups. I really get a good laugh at some of these Hawaii related groups.....
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:13 am
In regard to the "UH vs. Mainland college experience" debate, I find most people look at it strictly as an either/or proposition. But there actually is an affordable way to experience both.
It's called the National Student Exchange program, and as a former participant, I still consider it to be one of the best-kept secrets out there.
The deal is, you enroll at UH as a freshman and spend at least one year there, most likely two. Then you sign up for the program, which offers almost 200 public Mainland colleges to choose from, some of which are popular among Hawai‘i high school graduates or easily recognizable universities (Oregon, Oregon State, Georgia, UMass).
Pending space availability, you can attend the Mainland college of your choice for one year and still pay in-state tuition, which saves a bundle. You live on campus, experience all the things Hawai‘i kids at Mainland colleges experience, then go back to UH and graduate.
For someone like myself — a Honolulu kid who liked UH in general but felt like I was missing out on the full college experience by living at home — the NSE program was a Godsend.
I got a really good first-hand taste of what it's like to attend a Mainland college, yet I was still able to go back to UH and make all the valuable hometown contacts that eventually would help my career down the road.
That one year away also helped tremendously later on when I moved to the Mainland for work and had to adjust.
It was the best of both worlds, all for an affordable price.
I highly recommend the NSE program as an option for high school graduates and their parents who might be torn by the UH vs. Mainland college dilemma.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Well my family and I left Maui Hawaii 8 years ago. At first it was hard to do because I was only eight years old then but now I'm 16 and finally went to visit family in Maui last month and some of this month. What I can tell you is the island is getting overcrowded, very expensive, to much haloes, everything I remeber doing at the beaches 8 years ago are now restricted. Such as making a open pit bond fire, camping on the beaches, four wheel driving onto the beaches, and most of all just chilling at the beach with not much haloes on the local beaches. Well now everything has changed and kinda made me sad too know that the locals will be kicked off the island one by one because of the rising cost of living caused by the haloes that now own property on Maui. But oh well I guess.
As for island/rock fever it is real!!!! I went to Lanai for three weeks to visit family and it sucked. A city with only one gas station, one post office, one of everything except two very small gorcery stores!!!!
This made me a little nervous at first but then I guess I got use to it since I always went to the beaches there.
As for the fact Hawaii is a vacation spot not a place to live with exceptions to very old retired people....
I hope Maui will improve for the better future.