Mrs., Ms., Ma’am…or Miriam?
May 30th, 2008 by KimUnless you’re working for Google or something, if you’re in your twenties, you’re bound to run into this basic question of etiquette during your first years in the workplace:
When is it OK to call someone older than you by his or her first name?
I ponder this question regularly at my job. I’m calling and emailing numerous people every day, the majority of whom are at least 10 years older than I am, and some of whom hold are recognized leaders in the community. The last thing I want to do is offend someone I need to get on the phone, so I usually err on the side of being too polite. That doesn’t stop me from worrying about coming off as too formal and weird, though.
As is probably evident to anyone who reads this blog, the idea that I am an adult (not a young’un or student), or may quickly be reaching that point, is simultaneously amusing and dismaying to me. So, the idea of meeting anyone significantly older and better established than I am and calling that person by his or her first name has taken some getting used to.
Growing up, I was always taught “Mr.” and “Mrs.” None of this new-age calling-parents-by-their-first-names stuff. In high school, it was inexcusable to call a teacher anything less than “Mr.”, “Mrs.” and “Ms.” and you were supposed to stand up, even in the middle of class, whenever any adult entered the room. (Incidentally, a class of students at my high school did this recently for me when I entered their classroom and it seriously freaked me out.)
In college, titles were always “Prof.” or “Professor” — I never had an instructor who encouraged anything more casual. Even though I consider many college professors friends in addition to teachers and mentors, I still address them as “Prof.” in emails.
Flash forward several years. “Classmates” have been replaced by “colleagues,” college socials with upscale social functions, and networking. Help! Where’s my rule book?
There are some basics, I guess. People in certain positions of power, regardless of how well you know them, are always “Director,” “Judge,” “Senator,” “Representative,” etc. I’m sure neither of our U.S. Senators would appreciate it if a 24-year-old reporter walked up to either of them, stuck out her hand and said “Howzit Dan?”
I’m wondering what other guidelines you think young professionals should follow in addressing older colleagues in the workplace. Is there a rule book somewhere I can borrow?
Tags: work
May 30th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Okay, I’m slightly old to be commenting here, but I also grew up with the understanding I would address my elders as Mr. and Mrs. or whatever the proper salutation should be. It’s hard when you look young too because I think people expect you to address them that way. Honestly, I always use salutations unless the person specifically tells me to call them by their first name. I think when you get older (ha-ha, my age… late 30s), you can call them by the first name in different situations. Even when I was in my graduate classes, I had profs who would call me on the phone and refer to themselves by the first name when I picked up the phone, such as, “Hi Jane, this is Eileen.” But I would still call them Prof. Smith. I saw you put “Ma’am” in your title, and here in the South, every female is referred to as ma’am out of respect. My husband will say it to me or his mom. Personally, I hate it. But I started doing it too because that’s part of the culture. Women are referred to as ma’am and men as sir.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Yeah, all of my kid’s friends who are in their mid-20’s to mid-30’s, call me Mr. except for maybe one guy, who has his own particular rules of life, in fact calls me pops sometimes but hey, I like that. Many of my former players still call me coach and that was 10-20 years ago but calling me by my first name is ok too, not a big deal. I call all of my doctors “doc.” In the army, everyone is called by their last name. I know a judge and politicians but call them all by first names. Heck, if I were to meet our senators it would probably be “Howzit Dan.”
But yeah, if I were young like you, calling persons older, Mr. or Mrs. is proper and respectful but if they were co-workers or friends you play volleyball with, then first names is ok.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:18 am
I think that if it’s within you’re company, addressing people by their first name should be ok. Outside of your own organization I think it gets a little more tricky. I generally settle for middle ground by going by the person’s full name if it’s in person or over the phone and then kind of play it by ear once I start conversing with them (”Can I speak to John Doe please?”). If it’s speaking with them the first time over email I usually address them formally by Mr./Ms so and so. It really just depends on what you’re comfortable with and your perceived relationship with that person.
What was really weird for me though was when I started working at the high school I graduated from. The first year or two I really had to get over referring to teachers by their last names. Since I had gone there I was still in the mindset of a student and addressing them by their last name. However, since I was now in some ways a “colleague” I had to get over this awkwardness and just call them by their first name.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:44 am
i don’t know if my workplaces have all been more informal than yours, but i’ve always addressed “colleagues” by their first name regardless of age. i guess the way i look at it is although you may be the new guy, you’re still on the same level, you may hold the same job title or job description. in college many of my professors were PhD’s, but didn’t require to call them “Professor” some I did and others I called Mr. or Ms.
at my last workplace, our department head had earned a PhD and insisted that everyone call him “Dr. XXXX” i thought that was so pretentious! of course i admired his degree but we were in an office where everyone called each other by first names…it just seemed like he wanted the same recognition or admiration that medical doctors receive. but to me there’s a huge difference in a random PhD (which his seemed to be) and a trained medical professional…
what school did you go to that you had to stand whenever a teacher entered the room? i’m pretty sure i’m a few years older than you and have never done or even heard of that…sounds kind of military style.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I agree with the posters who said to play it by ear. I call my coworkers and boss by their first names, but I address all of our clients by Mr./Mrs./Dr. unless directed otherwise. It’s always best to err on the side of formality than insult someone when first meeting them.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:15 am
My daughter’s friends call me “uncle”. I rather enjoy that. Feels like family, you know?
At work, first name basis, except to the publisher.
Just wait until you get married and have to address your in-laws.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
I’m “uncle” to my kids friends. I call my in-laws by their first name and my boss and co-workers.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
this is a weird one. i’m in my 40s at a middle school and older than my vice-principal and call him, “mr. ___” even though we’re colleagues. when in doubt, ask the person how he/she should be addressed. most will tell you. i wouldn’t assume. because if you assume you can make an ass out of u and me.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
I’m 27 and address my work colleagues (of a wide range of ages) by their first name. My last boss was addressed as “Chairman” and my current boss is informal and insists on being addressed by his first name. On a similar note, as a petite 20-something who is often mistaken for a college student, I’m uncomfortable tasking older (~50+ yrs old) co-workers who are in subordinate positions to do work for me. I find it awkward to ask a lady who is the same age as my mom or grandma to make photocopies and file my mess of papers for me.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
thats a tough one Kim. When I was your age (back in the day) I always defaulted to the mr/ms title at which point the person would almost always then tell me to call them by their first name.
But I still call my most of my daughter’s teachers mr/ms - especially at school - even though I am older than most of them.
(I never use Mrs. - just Ms. - it seems like the natural match to Mr. - yes, I was a child of the glory days of the ERA and Gloria Steinem!)
Note to J: you should try to get over the weirdness you feel about asking older people who are in subordinate positions to do things for you. They are probably subordinate to your position due to qualifications. Continually doing their job and yours is a recipe for disaster. (just sayin’….)
May 30th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
When I first started working with older people (those close to retiring) I always wondered what to call them. Funny how yesterday me and a few coworkers were just talking about the same thing. Anyway, I try to put myself in their shoes. If we’re just coworkers then first name basis is good enough. If it’s a client or someone with some kind of attachment to their name I’ll resond accordingly. Of course with family members and friend’s parents the local style is always “aunty” or “uncle”.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
I work on special construction projects. We call everybody by their first name. Maybe the building inspector or the insurance agent or the banker gets the Mr/Ms. Off hours? I’m all the kids’ Auntie.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I usually wait for the person to introduce themselves to me before I start addressing them or using their name frequently in conversation. That way I know what they want to be addressed by.
Regarding classroom titles, I always found it interesting that my cousin who went to Kaiser said that classmates didn’t even use the teachers’ last names. They simply addressed their teachers as Mister or Missus. I found that a little awkward and couldn’t even imagine going, “Mista, Mista!” when trying to get my teacher’s attention.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:42 pm
I am 21 and currently work in an ad agency. We have people of all ages and mostly, if they aren’t known by a nick name, it’s by their first. Don’t worry so much though. 25 (or whatever you are) is not that young. To me that is serious adult age and light years away (please don’t take offense, I don’t mean to be rude). You are closer to being 30 than 18. My sister was a staffer for the daily in Seattle when she was 21 and called everyone by their first name.
But I guess everyone is different. I think a lot of it has to do with how comfortable you are with saying it - I’m sure some of that has effect on how they take it (the first name calling). If you seem natural and sincere, maybe they (the receiver of the first name calling) will respond well? Maybe not? I don’t know.
Ok, now I am just thinking out loud (in type).
May 31st, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Kim,
How about your “real” (blood) Auntie’s and Uncle’s, think those titles will be phased out? I’m 40, and it would still be too weird for me to call my Auntie’s and Uncle’s by their first name without the family title. First time I heard my oldest cousin call my Dad just by his first name it tripped me out. I guess relating to them (family elders) since as long as I can remember must be a big factor, cause when my youngest Uncle got married after I graduated from high school, I never called my new Auntie, auntie. Same thing with people much older than you, that you primarily had interactions with as a youth. For example, pretty much all my fellow boy scouts from my troop still refer to others parents when they see them on occasion as Mr./Mrs.
June 1st, 2008 at 11:23 am
when it comes to work, the proper salutations are a good indicator of what type of culture is embraced in the work place. at my previous job, there was no way people could get away with calling the owner of the company by his first name. the company always seemed to be trying really hard to pass itself off as a corporate machine for some reason, in spite of it’s humble local roots.
from the first day at my new job, i was caught off guard when people from all ages and and all segments of the business would casually refer to the owner and the rest of upper management by first name. like my first company, this one was also of humble, local beginnings. the difference was that this one decided to embrace those roots and to hold on to that small-company feel as long as possible, for once the ability to do so goes away (when the company gets too big), it’ll be gone forever.
June 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm
JuSaMee: It was Iolani.
Thanks, everyone, for offering your take on salutations in the workplace!